See also: https://jeanhsu.substack.com/p/ask-vs-guess-culture

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37176703 (946 points | 19 days ago | 479 comments)

This is the post the article is based on:

https://ask.metafilter.com/55153/Whats-the-middle-ground-bet...

I guess.

I read docs, I read code, I read SO questions, I read forum posts, I read blog posts, I read chat histories, I read GitHub issues.

And then, after I lost 1h-20h I ask someone.

Why?

When I started programming, people didn't help me. They were angry when I didn't know things. They laughed at me when I didn't know things. They explained things very badly. They didn't have time to explain things. They didn't know what they were doing themselves.

While Japan is the most obvious "Guess culture" for Westerners.

My favourite example of a "Guess culture" is that of Iranian taarof[0]:

Another example occurs if a Western individual is not familiar with taarof in Iranian culture. When an Iranian individual is offering taarof, it is to first view it as a sincere offer with the hope of decline up to four or five times. If the individual offers more than five times, it can be concluded that the individual is not doing taarof, and the opposite side should respectfully thank that individual and accept the offer with gratitude.

In that example one has to decline about 5 times (!) to be sure the offer is genuine, most people unfamiliar with that custom will take the offer the second or third time or will be enraged that they don't understand a "No, thank you".

The most laborious combination is a "genuine offer" and you deciding to decline it. The person signaling the genuine offer will try to double down, - so expect an 8th time - until your genuine rejection is "accepted" and while you are at it firmly holding your ground try to sneak in a counter-offer, too ;) In the end you will end up most likely accepting a "symbolic offer" of the genuine offer. E.g. if you decline a ride you are offered genuinely (say because you want to have a comfortable ride with a taxi), you can decline eventually by accepting the symbolic offer that e.g. a taxi is called up for you.

Pretty hard to figure out if you are coming from an ask culture.

[0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof

The article discusses how agonizing it must be for a guesser when they have to say no to something. But something I have been dealing with recently is actually the reverse—the resentment a guesser feels when told “no”. Because in their mind, they have done the math and think they have correctly deduced they should receive a “yes”. Forthwrmore, since they don’t like saying “no”, they project this on their rejector and take it personally.

As a diehard “asker” I can’t help but see “guessing” as narcissistic. Why would you presume you know what I want? Of course from the other side “asking” can be seen as self centered—why can’t they read the room?

A certain degree of guess culture is required. No one would be happy living in a "culture" where it's normal to ask the person you're talking to "Hey, can I punch you in the face?" every five minutes — if you don't ask how could you be sure? It seems to me that the more a culture leans toward guess, the better.

I wonder if there's any correlation, causation, whatever, between the guesser segment of the population and socially disrupting mental disorders. Autism, ADHD, etc.

Giving it a quick think with the people I know (given that I don't know the mental health status of people without diagnoses) it's an almost perfect split.

A secondary wonder comes in due to the theory of mind deficit that can come with those disorders - thinking, or guessing, that other people have the same information you do even if it's not been communicated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind

Maybe sprinkle in some illusion of transparency too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusion_of_transparency

Of course there are a billion other variables, just a possible pattern that popped into mind as I was reading the article.

It could just be that people who socialise less in general are more likely to become guessers possibly (Caveman programming: If you ask for something and get rejected you are risking your position in the tribe)

Someone mentioned last time this or similar was posted and I agree that this division is totally written from the Asker perspective. Using "guesser" is a deprecating word. It's the person that has empathy and think about others.

The idea of Ask and Guess cultures seems reasonable, if the Asker will accept a no. However, it's easy for Ask culture to slip into Ask, followed by Ask again, "but why not?", "but you should", "but you did that for someone else", and so forth.

Weird. I think I'm a bit of both. Which probably explains a lot why some "guessers" have a hard time with me sometimes.

> This column will change your life

Nope. Nothing changed. Where do I submit a formal complaint?

I'm an asker

are you someone who gets people to do things for you or are you someone who does things for other people